18/11/2007 - It's not racism if you're talking about the Welsh.

[rosiedoes]

Apparently, this is me 'naming names' - also known as the person in question knowing exactly who they were.

I was going to actually post some of the conversation in question, to allow people to make their own decisions about who was in the wrong - but a) I'm not quite as childish as some people would like to think and b) I have more compassion for the stuff in there which was genuinely personal and not hysterical racism.

I don't believe, however, in letting people make racist comments about their friends, and at the time I did say this:






Perhaps the saddest thing, is that aside from being angry at her behaviour, I won't mourn the loss of this 'friendship' at all and I doubt it would have been so convincing for Amanda if she hadn't already had doubts about the value and integrity of the friendship herself. After all, I wasn't there, but she was.

Comments

[nikitaquincy.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, I don't know a lot about Wales, the Welsh flag and any animosity they may have with the English or vice versa. But what I do know, is that if someone wants to carry the flag of their country in another country, be it a sporting event, a concert, a political rally, whatever, they should be able to without prejudice.

If I want to carry an Ontario flag around Newfoundland, you can be damn sure I will. If I want to carry the Newfoundland Republic flag instead of the provincial flag, I will. And anyone who tries to say I don't belong there with my particular flag of choice would probably get punched in the face. I haven't always had a good experience with the people here, but I would NEVER dare tell someone they couldn't fly a flag of their choosing.

You were rightly upset, I would have been as well. It was a rather ignorant thing for her to say.

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

This was specifically in the English National Stadium.

I'm not even Welsh and I've taken a Welsh flag to a Manics concert there, before.

The Welsh as a people are very territorial, because they've lived under English rule for centuries. I can't blame them for being pissy with us. But there is no justifiable excuse for saying that the Welsh should not be allowed to carry their national flag to suppot their countrymen.

[anjak-j.livejournal.com]

People never seem to think it is racism when it's between the differing countries of the UK. Or from Brits against Irish people. It really fucking irritates me, because it's an institutional pestilence in the UK to have a pop at the Celtic peoples with lame-ass jokes questioning intelligence and regarding the sodomy of farm animals.

Welsh people can be prejudiced, but hundreds of years of being shit upon by the Union has a tendency to do that to people. My observation living here is that the Welsh are fiercely proud to be Welsh and are proud of the fact that they have managed to hold onto their language and culture when an invading force threatened to take that away. That said, while they do hold a certain amount of animosity towards England as an institution, they are generally very friendly people who meet like with like.

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

To be perfectly fucking frank, I'm proud of the Welsh for holding on to that! They retain the last vestiges of the true British Isles' heritage, and I wish I had more of that strength of identity.

[anjak-j.livejournal.com]

I am too. If you'd have asked me 6 months ago, I might have said that I wished to live back in England, but now? No fucking way. I really have come to love it here, despite all the shit that happened the first year I lived down here. Here, I know who I am, and it has taught me to be proud of my cultural identity. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

And I'm really glad you're happy, now.

[anjak-j.livejournal.com]

About time, eh? :oP

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

I should say so! <3

[edgiko.livejournal.com]

I must say, this is pretty new to me as I grew up in the US and aren't familiar with the history of the UK. However, I'm learning a lot from this post.

That being said, I think this is an example of someone saying something racist and not realizing how racist it sounds. People do it a lot and then get defensive over it.

She may not realize it was racist by stating that, but it was. Kind of like an ignorant racism.

If that makes sense.

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, your comment totally makes sense. It doesn't make me any less angry, though, because she's someone who continually calls out everyone else for prejudice.

[shiny-starlight.livejournal.com]

What gets me is that she honeslty doesnt think anything is wrong with her arguement. Its completely racist, and she had the nerve to be affronted about somoene having national pride. Its insane. And while it may not have been an huge amount of your fic she sent to someone else, she still had no right. Especially if shes only doing it to tryu and prove you wrong. It's your work, being a beta is a privilege, and she should have respected that. If she's going to keep on with this kind of behaviour, shes going to alienate a lot of people.

[rosiedoes.livejournal.com]

Well, I consider it an honour to have great betas like the four people who have recently beta'd my work, personally. I don't like to take my betas for granted.

This was really one of the last straws for me, though - I know you were there at the time and saw how furious I was. I just don't have patience with that.

[elethe.livejournal.com]

The weird thing is (probably) nobody would blink if someone DID wear the British flag at a gig in Cardiff. Yes, Wales is not actually, technically represented on the flag, but afaik the Union Flag is for the whole of Britain anyway (it's just Wales gets lumped with England). And in big international sporting events where only England (and not Wales) was competing people would probably be fine about flying either the England or British flag in support.

The Welsh flag is more of an additional thing to the union flag.

People supporting Bruce Springsteen at (say) Wembly, would be likely (very likely) to be flying US flags whether or not they were American, and I doubt many people would dispute their right to that.

[moondarri.livejournal.com]

*headscratch* idk if it's because i'm bits & pieces of different nationalities [that & i never thought being english was anything really that awesome] but i don't really get patriotism & stuff. buuuut i wouldn't ever begrudge anyone the right to wave their flag if they wanted to. i mean, it's all about pride anyway, so. if you're allowed to wave gay flags on pride marches or carry big black parade banners at mcr gigs, then. it's kind of the same thing? it's being proud of the stuff you feel associated with. doesn't really matter whether it's nationality or sexuality or whatever. anyway. this is me rambling without really knowing context, so.